Codes/Comments (Bakker) Codes/Comments (Paris)
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064c - joy (comment)

i remember for a few weeks after she died, every time the phone rang, i seriously thought it was our midwife calling to tell us this was all a mistake. that's how much my mind was unable to really accept that she was gone. really gone. my midwife never called.

i was also tortured in those first weeks with the thoughts that god was punishing me for the bad things i had done in my past. thanks, residual catholic upbringing. there was no answer to the how or the why, so i just had to assume it was something i did that was causing this retribution. but i didn't believe in god, so there was no comfort to be had in that whole system. i envied people who had that. that was something that was missing, a faith, a belief, a spiritual safety net. but i couldn't just make myself believe to get the benefits i needed right then, and anyway, i probably believed in god but hated him for allowing my baby to die, so i was screwed regardless.

in those first weeks, we hid from the world. hid in our house, and when we did venture out, it felt like we weren't really a part of the world anymore. we were stuck on march 21 2005, and the calender was turning without us. i didn't know how i was supposed to continue living, and i had no one to ask. luckily we found a grief counselor, and she held the thread that we hung on from.

and i don't remember when i laughed for the first time either. i know it felt bad to do it. and eating too. i ate a lot of apples. or half-ate, because it felt so bad to be able to taste, to chew, to live. every thing about living, the first time you have to do it again, it feels wrong and weird. but you have to do it all, and the more you do it, the less odd it feels, but, there is no easy way to do it, it just has to happen, and it really helps to hear from other women that you will get thru. you will laugh again, and it won't mean that you don't love your child any less. that whole first year was so hard. you just have to get thru it, one day at a time.

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rejects notion that baby's death was God's plan

065 - The Meaning of a Life (comment)

Thank you, Julia, for this. I can't begin to highlight the comments or phrases in the original post and the comments that resonate with me. There are too many.
I am a bit over 2 months out from the loss of my son, so I feel that I am still in uncharted waters for myself. I don't know what tomorrow will bring, let alone next week, next month, next year....
I do know, though, that I have found myself very resistant to hearing that there was a bigger reason for his death. Within hours of finding out that he had died, I was getting my blood drawn--it turned out that the tech had experienced the loss of a baby. In trying to comfort me, he said something along the lines of "I'm sure there's a reason. G-d must have a plan. You never know, maybe the child had special needs and he knew you couldn't handle it." Although I know he meant well, those words still echo in my thoughts. Initially it was just simply that I was offended that he implied that perhaps I wouldn't be able to "handle" a child with a disability or that my son would be a "less-than" if he had a disability. After we found out that my son did have Down syndrome, though, the words started to haunt me as "What if he's right?" I've had others, too, say "it all happens for a reason," particularly after hearing that he had Down syndrome.
I'd say I'm still waiting to know what that reason is, but that wouldn't be totally honest. I think that the reason that so many of these post resonate is that I don't know if I'm looking for meaning or not.
My baby died. That sucks. It's not ok. I am changed, but perhaps not for the better. I'd like to think I was an ok person to begin with, so the implication that this will make me a better person or a stronger person doesn't sit well. I'd rather be a weak person and have my son sleeping on my chest as I type this.
I don't feel the need for my son to change the lives of others--don't tell me you're appreciating your children more or I'll just ask why you didn't appreciate them in the first place. Don't tell me that his death will make my other children more compassionate--I think we could have handled that one without stealing a life.
But I do think that we can keep him alive and do good for other people and other families. Yes, perhaps we'll be more conscientious about that because of him, but that's not a reason for his death or a higher purpose or meaning. It's just one way we're trying to deal with the crap hand we've been dealt.
Julie, your comment "I am not a better person because Bear died. I am a better person because he lived." sums it up, I think. I am a better person because of every second that my son lived and every second that he was with us after he died. I am not a better person because of his death. I am not a better person in spite of his death. I am a better person regardless of his death.

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finds enchantment in grief and in life after loss

066 - See? Magic.

I am sitting on my front porch with a cup of coffee, watching the sun set on the brick building in front of me. The sun behind me, and the world is a beautiful place, filled with red and yellow and gold. My chair is comfortable, my coffee is good. The dogs are sniffling around the front yard. I can hear the sounds of children, in those last few moments before the call to come in for the night will go around the neighbourhood. It was a busy week of travel and meetings, it was a busy Saturday of errands and household things, and I have this brief time – with nothing but to sit and enjoy, watch the changing of the light.

They call this the magic hour.

What is grief, but a form of magic, I ask you? What is the terror and the pain and the horror that I found myself in four years ago, but a form of magic, a spell, an incantation that was thrown over me? It is easy to imagine the vile and loathsome creature that took my son away from me – it is easy to think of a cave, a foul smell and the guttural words of a spell. That seems as good and as reasonable an explanation of any about why tragedy struck me, struck mine, struck you and struck yours.

Magic, all around us. Old order magic with no waiving of hands, muttering of incantations. Magic, hiding in plain view. Magic that is good and magic that is so terribly evil it is impossible to behold. Magic held into balance, just barely.

And it seems a reasonable explanation that the magic of that spell would slowly wear off, that I would be able to find my way in the world. I look the same as I did back then, more or less, I walk and talk but I am utterly changed. See? Magic.

I believe in goodness and mercy, all the days of my life, in spite of what happened. Perhaps I believe more strongly now. See? Magic.

And on my front porch, watching the liquid line of gold fall towards the ground, I can be captivated by sudden and ephemeral beauty. See? Magic.

Grief then a form of magic. It seems appropriate to think that – the best explanation. So much of our world seems fragile, improbable. The quickness of the life and death, the peace of a Saturday night sunset. The curve of my son’s ear, the way his finger was crooked just like mine. See? Magic.

And this. The world I live in now. This wholeness and this peace that I find has come over me. My contentedness and my delight in beauty. I wouldn’t have believed it possible. See? Magic.

It is customary, at the end of a Glow Post, to ask a series of questions. This is my last post on Glow, and I would beg your leave to simply say thank you. It has been an honour for me to write here. I thank you that you read. I wish you comfort, and when you are ready for it, magic.

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067 - A Great and Noble Life (comment

Thank you for this post. There are two kinds of faith - untested and tested. Yours has been tested as has mine. It isn't to say that the tested faith is necessarily stronger, but you do at least know it's strength. Mine is more flakey around the edges since my daughter Abigail died and more so still since I was told we will not be able to have more children but...
... well I do feel a connection with heaven I never felt before. I do believe God is with me in the suffering and that he is neither the cause of it nor does he take pleasure from it.

If you want to keep discussions going on faith in the light of suffering please visit my blog www.livingintherainbow.com - there are not that many on this topic. Do you have a blog?

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return to long-ago abandoned faith and comfort in afterlife

068 - Birthing a Dying Child (comment)

what a gift you have for putting into words some of my feelings - some of the things we ALL feel. Betrayal. How right you are. Betrayed by the genes I passed on to my son. Him betrayed by his own multiplying cells. (He died quickly and unexpectedly of a brain tumor when he was eight weeks old.) In my own blog, I wrote not long ago that I miss the naivete of believing that healthy pregnancies and healthy babies just HAPPEN for me. It's similar to what you describe so many others believing...that if you let nature take over, if you're aware of and listen to your body, if you do it all "right" that the outcome will be good. Well, as we all know, that simply isn't true.

As for God or a higher power...I am coming to grips with all of it. Surprisingly, losing our son is slowly pushing me back toward a spirituality that I abadoned long ago. I MUST believe that there is more than death...that somehow, somewhere, my son's beautiful little spirit lives on.

Anyway...thank you for sharing...and thank you all for this space that we can come and be understood and understand others.

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069 - Special Powers (comment)

What a good post. And good questions. I do believe spiritually that my girl existed with us for awhile. I would hear a stream or a river and think of her immediately. I don't know why water would do that for me and my head. I do think spirituality has explained this very well for me. Physically and psychologically everything says this can't really exist, because it's not real. But, for me, the signs are spiritual signs that she existed, that I was dreaming for her.

I have had multiple dreams of babies and of mothering, nursing and holding and loving an infant, they probably were not dreams of my little girl, but dreams that I wish I could act on in reality. If they were dreams of her, I cherish them.

I think her little spirit is not with us so much now, every now and then I get glimpses of her, in the warm breeze, in the sounds of a rushing river, in a sunset, in beauty. I think of her and wish she was here smiling along beside us all. Thanks for this post. Good questions!

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070 - A deep dark hole of despair

Thank you Christine. I hate it that anyone has to go through this. Its a cruel twist of life, and it makes me question the futility of it all. God, the Universe etc. Why why why?
If God was so loving and caring - why would he do this to me?
There are so many pregnant drug users & alcoholics that dont lose their babies - or the ones that are abused...
I think its a damn liberty. And thats me being polite cos i'm so so angry now :-(

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071a - What do you wish you could say?

I wish I could tell everyone that tells me to be grateful that "At least your daughter lived and is healthy" that just because I have one healthy baby doesn't cancel out the fact that there were two. My daughter's health is not balance for my son's death, it doesn't cancel it out. Yes, I do have a baby whereas many women leave the hospital empty handed, but I was pregnant with TWO, the second being my only son who has died. I also would like to shove "It wasn't meant to be, or It's God's will" up the asses of the insensitive jerks who seem to use those phrases when they haven't got anything to say. I don't believe for one minute God intended my son to die, nor do I believe that his life was not meant to be. I would also like to tell my family who felt their Vegas vacation was more important than the funeral of my dead son that they are a disgrace to the human race and God forbid one of your children dies and no one from the family attends the funeral. They can rot as far as I'm concerned. I used to feel embarassed that not one member of my family attended my son's funeral, now I am enraged.

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friend offers spiritual reason for baby's death that author finds comforting; this is a counter-example of posts about how others give spiritual reasons for deaht of a baby that are offensive

071b - why me?

Beautiful perspecitive Gal. Grief is very self centred in the way where it does become more about the survivor and what we've lost. I find myself asking "Why me?" all the time. In fact I have felt I have had a huge black cloud hanging over my head for most of my life. If something bad is going to happen then it usually happens to me. It may seem a stretch to most, in fact my husband used to laugh when I'd say it but after we had been together for some time, he started to realize there was some truth to what I was saying. We'd go out for dinner and there would be bugs in my food, or hair. We'd go to the pub and some obnoxious drunk would spill an entire pitcher of beer on me within minutes of being there. When we tried to have children it was miscarriage after miscarriage while everyone around us seemed to be blossoming in pregnant bliss. I have no answers. For awhile I felt as if I were being punished by God or the powers that be for not being a good enough person. For the bad things I've done in my life. I imagined God looming over me decreeing "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth..." after I had tried to no avail to have a child years after having an abortion. When it was discovered that Calvin had a heart defect in utero at my twenty week scan, shamefully my first thought was "Why our boy?". We already had a daughter and were desperately wanting a son. Not that I would have wanted Georgia to have the defect Calvin had by any means, but I felt that because I wanted him so badly, of course it was going to be our boy that had the defect. I have searched, mostly in vain trying to come up with a sense of why as to everything went the way it did. I have had a few suggestions from friends that seem to bring me some comfort, a few different and beautiful ways of looking at our situations. My friend Bill wrote me in an email shortly following Calvin's death that upon hearing our news, he was shaken to the core. He went out to his garage and began to pray for something to help us get through this awful pain. The answer to Bill became perfectly clear. We had been trying for so long to bring our first daughter a sibling, the first time we tried had ended in miscarriage, another little girl with a genetic disorder called Turner Syndrome. Bill felt that God had sent Calvin to guide Georgia safely into the world so that our daughter would have a sister and that we would have another child. Bill felt that once Calvin's purpose had been fulfilled, that it was time for him to return home, that he had done all he was supposed to do in this lifetime. It gave me pause for thought and became a beautiful answer to the why's? Another thought from my friend Jesse who's son Oliver also has Truncus Arteriosus (Calvin's heart defect), was that our boys wanted us to be their parents so badly that they were willing to take whatever body, no matter how broken, to come down to earth from heaven to be with us. I like that answer too. I'd like to think that Calvin chose us, not because of how we would cope with his death but because of how we loved him when he was here. Our son was loved fiercely, from the moment of conception to the diagnosis of his broken heart, to his birth, surgery and death. Every moment of his life became about him, protecting him, giving him the best chance, the most love. Even after being removed from life support, he stayed with us for over an hour, nestled in our arms, taking as much love as he needed to go back with. I'm sure if he were here he would tell me that it was because I had already lost so much. That he came to me in his broken body because he knew that I would do whatever it took to help him survive, that I would sacrifice everything I had for him. He came to me because he was so very wanted that he knew I would accept him no matter what problems came with him, that I would love him without limits or expectations. He came to me because I was willing and ready to fight for his life with everything I had, even if it had meant giving him my own heart. It doesn't make it any easier to live without him, but thoughts like this soften the sharp edges of the pain and makes it a little less about me and more about him. About his choices and his sacrifice for being here with us.
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intense anger at God; comparison to religious friend with conclusion that the friend is coping better; posting anonymously because of shame about anger toward God?; aleination from community of faith

072 - God are you real

Hi all,i knw a lot of ladies here have found hope and much comfort in their beliefs bt im having serious issues with god.its bn 6 months since i gave birth to my sleeping baby boy,the hardest thing i ever had to do.during those very dark days,i prayed very hard for god to help but ive never felt more alone than in those days,i grew up a christian and dedicatrd myself to god and his purpose but i cant seem to get over the fact that he cant be alivr, no loving father willingly lets his child go throug wht a i went through just because its "his purpose",how sick is that?surely this god thing has to be what us as human beings have created just coz we want to believe in something?
Come to think of it,in those brain washed days when i gave everything to god he nrver did anything for me.i just gave praise to him for all of my hard work and achievements.

One of my cousins who is a babyloss mama nd a strict christian came to visit me the other day and told me how i needed to ask forgiveness frm god since ive not made it a secret that i dont believe in the existence of god anymore,well,if he exists then he,s heartlrss.who needs a god like that anyway."ask fo forgiveness",like i went and raised his hopes high and then devided to kill his baby.im glad her religion helped her after the death of her child,in fact she's doing much better than me,but evrytime i think of god my blood boils,im beginning to think that i hate him.(very hard for me to type,ive thought about it but never said to anyone)i used to tell it to him in thevhope that he'l strike me down and kill me,yes im not scared,in fact i dare him.if there's a heaven i want nothing to do with it considering i have to be there with him,ha!id rather burn in hell.my biggest worry is the wellbeing of my son,where is he?im going crazy with this anger.

Thanks for reading my post,so soorry if i dont make se.nse,just needed to "talk" or rather rant.

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073 - God are you real

I get it, I do. I feel the same way. I happy for the people who find comfort in God but I am not one of them . I feel like there is no way that God can be loving and then take our babies from us. Babies we loved, babies we wanted and then he lets other babies suffer living with people who don't love them, who don;t want them. What is the "purpose" of that. I am not afraid to say that if there is a God I am angry with him, that I can never forgive him for what he has done to me, to my husband, to my family. How can you take my sweet boy away. Don't tell me there was some greater purpose for my son. My son should be here with me, being loved and adored and your son should be there with you.
I know that there are others out there who still have their faith or whose faith has been strengthen through this trauma but I am not one of them. I respect those that remain strong in their faith but I also really understand those that have lost their faith. I really relate to your post. Thanks for saying the things I have been thinking.

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074 - God are you real

I don't think you need to ask God's forgiveness for grief. That's silly. After I lost Calypso my faith was stronger.

The day before Calypso died I sat at her bedside and cried tears and prayed. I told God that if she was hurting he needed to take her home. Because I didn't want her to hurt anymore. 24 hours later she was gone and I was crushed but at the same time I KNEW we'd be together someday.

Almost 5 years later and now I have doubts. I'm terrified of dying and there being no God and Heaven. I'm terrified of not seeing my daughter again :(

It's scary and sad

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075a - General Loss/Grief Advice

Branwen, my heart goes out to you and your husband.
Thank you for your comforting words & guidance. Especially about God. I am working on letting God into my life a whole lot more. Allowing Gods love in, is helping me feel wrapped up in a cozy blanket of comfort and peace.
Thank you for walking this path with me. Your words mean more than I can put into words.

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believes God had purpose for loss

076 - Have not been here in a long time

ThAnk-you both for your kind words. And may God give you the strengh needed to travel this road. I know God had a purpose for our loss and till this day i cant say i figured out why he picked us. I am afraid that i havent learned the lesson and fearful that every pregnancy will end
the same way.....

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077 - Perfect

Yesterday a friend came over to comfort me. She respectfully waited a month since my daughter's death to give me space, she said.

Then she continued to explain that God only makes perfect, so she explained in her words that my daughter must not have been perfect and He knew it. That is why he took her. I WISH I could have done or said something beyond standing there in shock and tears.

This is what I wanted to say. My daughter is the most beautiful perefct thing I have ever known! How can you stand there and profess to be perfect, yet say this to a mother who is simply staring you back in tears. How does that make you the perfect that you speak about?

I know I am flawed, human. But one of those human instincts tells me that my stillborn daughter was and is perect.

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facing inevitability of death and God's role; comforting other user about insensitive comments

078 - Perfect

Heather - I seethe on your behalf. What a truly shitty thing for this 'friend' to do to you.

Your daughter is perfect, but for whatever reason she died. If 'God' only allowed the perfect to live, then we would be immortal, no? We all die, but unfortunately for us we have reversed the natural order of things and said goodbye to our children instead of them watching us decline and go.

I am so sorry for the heartless, opportunistic and misguided attempt of someone trying to make sense of a tragedy and the pain it has caused you. Your daughter is perfect, as is my son and all of the other babies lost here. They were perfect, loved and wanted. Anything else is a disservice to their life and existence.

Sending you healing, warm light.

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079 - Perfect

Heather, your friend sounds like a nut (sorry...but WTF???). Does she know ANYTHING about religion?

We are human; ergo, not perfect.

Your daughter was beautiful, loved and perfect in YOUR eyes.

God is not here to judge and remove "imperfect" beings. S/he is here to hold us as we weep, carry us through dark days, and surround us with love.

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example of finding comfort in other's religious reasoning

080 - Perfect

I was told two things, one from a Christian and one from a Buddhist, both helped and I hope they help you.

The Christian said: "You won't know why your child died. Sure, you'll know the medical stuff, somebody can tell you that, but you won't know why for the rest of your life, and no matter how you pray, God won't tell you. You're going to have to have faith that there was a reason, and accept that there's no way to know why. It's hard, but think how Mary felt knowing she was going to have Jesus but he was going to end up dead on a cross. She still probably didn't understand why even though she knew why. Does that make sense at all? I think your baby is probably up there with angels waiting for you, and when you get there you won't care why anymore because you'll be with that baby."

The Buddhist told me "Perhaps your child needed a life that was only love. Think about it - you nurtured her inside your womb, welcomed her, and held her until she died. She knew only love in this life. Perhaps she just needed a rest. You won't know why, but you'll know that you did give her love while she lived."

Sometimes people say something they meant to help, but it hurts. I hope I didn't just do that to you. Kind of like family and friends that say something along the lines of "Just get over it, it's time to move on" in different ways.

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provision of support by clergy; picture of God as cheerleader

081 - Perfect

We were told something similar and mentioned it to the minister performing our son's funeral. To begin the service, she announced, "God doesn't want babies to die. God is the first to mourn when a child dies...."

It was such a powerful way to start the service and to this breaking heart, it was so much easier to hear something along the lines of God wanting my baby to make it just as much as I did. That we both had been on the sidelines, cheering my baby along.

Here is to aligning ourselves with supportive people who aren't afraid of disorder or tears or the ache of losing our sweet, precious perfect babies.

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082a - how do you deal with friends having babies?

This has happened to me. My sister in law had a son 6 months after my daughter died. I was just honest and told them I couldn't be around babies because it was too painful. That this was universal, any baby harms me not just them, and that I would let them know when I was feeling more capable. For me, around 4 months when a baby has head control, it gets easier.

You have been through something traumatic and you have a right to protect yourself from futher pain. It is possible they will be looking for some leadership. It is also possible that your needs don't really fly with them and your friendship. It will either work out or it won't.

You deserve space and support instead of pretending and suffering.

Sorry about that shitty brutal email. You are right, when people spew that God gives them good fortune of a new born baby, they automatically imply that God inflicts torture on the families who's children die. Unreal.

I wish you well with your tough situation.

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082b - sharing your stories

Eve,
My daughter's name was Jenna.
I love that you asked.
I think about you and Abby and WIll a lot.
I just wanted to add that I hide from church too, sometimes, and I was hoping to convince you not to feel bad about it. It's good to protect yourself as much as possible from fake converstations or superficial talk. Church is a land mine for that.
I am sorry it is so hard for you and I care.
I hope for you,
Diana

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083a - how do you deal with friends having babies?

UGH, Mandy, I am so glad you posted this. I don't even want to leave my house, go on Facebook, or spend time with anyone because I am afraid I wil hear those happy words spoken yet again. 2 cousins, 3 "close" friends, 2 high school friends... I feel like it's a personal insult, as though they planned it to be a slap in my face: HAHA, your baby died, but WE can have a baby and YOU CAN'T!! Which of course, isn't true. We're all in our 20s and 30s- of course people are getting pregnant.
I am in a place right now where I can't interact with those people, save for one who had a miscarriage before her current pregnancy and at least somewhat understands what we went through with Colin.
Frankly, I am angry at my friends and family who are pregnant. I am systematically erasing everyone who mattered, convincing myself that they never really mattered in the first place-- and none of them were ever really there for us when Colin died anyway. It's a lonely place. I don't know how to overcome the pain of dealing with others' happy news, in a similar situation to yours- firstborn child, almost 6 months out...

And agreed with the previous posters' opinions on the "God" issue- If I had not felt like I would be burdening others with my anger, I would have pounded some individuals into the ground over comments like that.

Anyway, I'm not sure why I wanted to tell you all this-- maybe to say, this isn't a great place to be in, so if you can find a way to get around getting to this point, you might try it...

I am so, so sorry for your loss and that you have to deal with this. Thinking of you.

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083b - rest now

I realize that this is not the kind of response you were looking for with the prompts you left at the end but I just need to say something, I don't know if this is the right place to do it so I'm sorry if I am violating the point of all this....
On Tuesday it will be 4 months since we lost our son...and I desperately wish I could find something like you described to relieve us. I am realizing through your post that my fiance and I are walking that line between depression and grief and I couldn't place my finger on it... We can't talk to anyone about our loss because everyone always has terrible advice or meaningless quips about life or God or trying again, or expects us to listen to their story about how their grandmother or dog died... yes, of course, all losses are painful and valid but frankly I am not in a place where I can care for or about anyone else except my family and myself... and even that is too much most days. I will not hold someone up while they whine about how hard life is when I can barely find a reason to keep living mine most days.
Evidently I am selfish and absorbed in my own pain and anger, and its all I can manage right now. Everything seems meaningless. I see a counselor occasionally but apparently I'm not doing the work or it's just not helping... Your description of acupuncture and pouring your heart out to someone who was just simply willing to listen, someone you did not have to "take care" of, sounded wonderful
I used to be very motivated by self-care and awareness. I wish I could find that peace again. The search for it just seems like an empty cause right now.

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084 - failure

Freya,

I know you don't know me, so it's okay if this doesn't help, but I want to tell you that I don't think of you as a failure. I think of you as a loving mama who had the worst thing imaginable happen to her. I don't think of any of the moms and dads here on Glow as failures.

Sometimes I think we feel guilt because it is good to be able to place blame somewhere. And sometimes it feels easy to place the blame on ourselves. Because if we aren't at fault, who is? God? It's hard to be mad at God, it's so abstract, and so futile.

Be gentle on yourself. I'll be thinking of you and your angel today.

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085 - how did you choose your child's name?

We had other names picked out for our baby until we found out he had trisomy 18. We found out at our first ultrasound (19 weeks), not the condition, but that there were so many things about him that were "incompatible with life." Once we found out all the issues we asked to know the sex, too, because we figured we knew everything else about him... We almost immediately and unanimously named him Emmanuel. It means "God is with us." We were so convinced that God was in our pain with us, even crying with us, it was such a comfort. We also knew that God was with our baby, he wasn't alone in there and that was a HUGE comfort. Our baby lived another five and a half weeks.

Sadkitty, I know what you mean about using a name. I mostly just call him "Baby" or "our baby" when I think about him because this is how I addressed him when I spoke to him, even after we picked out a name. It's almost more personal for me because that's my (horribly unoriginal) nickname for him.

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